COUNTERCOLUMN: All Your Bias Are Belong to Us

You know the direction the View team is going to take right from the get-go when Whoopie says that the statistics are the result of bad research. Those statistics have been known for years. Where is the bad research?

Then the bit of the single women who do want kids. Good. Have the kids but only after you have made sure that the kids will be taken caree of. Don't have the kid just to have a plaything that you can put away with someone else when it inconveniences you.

Also make sure you have a strong and good father figure somewhere in the mix because kids need fathers as well.

Seems to me that Ann's points are no-brainers and should by now be obvious. I think it is just that Whoopie was a single mother in the past and it hits a little close to home for her. God bless her if the kid turned out all right but in all too many cases the kids are disasters waiting to happen and the rest of us have to pay the price.

CNN just showed once again that they are not a serious news organization by any stretch of the imagination. Their widdle talking points get punctured and immediately it is not that the talking points are wrong or questionable. It is that the person who punctured the talking points is a mean nasty person of no value. What a surprise!

I am so glad I do not have cable any more. It saves my buying a television set because I threw something at it when I hear garbage like this.
 

"venereal diseased sexual profligate and drug addict"

And then they accuse us of having BDS

And really blaming single mothers, I mean even if you can prove that children from single parent homes have a higher chances to end up in jail, you blame the mothers? As if they were the only ones involved??
And in cases were the mother had not other choice but to raise their children on their own. What would she have some of these women do, stay in abusive relationship regardless of the consequence to their own safety?
Blame the mothers, the only one taking on the responsibility?

And can you believe that mixed race people would dare identify with their black parent? Who do these people think they are.
 

Who would you blame? The mother is raising the kid. In many cases the father is not in the picture at all. You have a mother who can see no wrong in anything the kid does and when the kid screws up she covers for him. How is that a good way to raise a kid.

I wonder if you remember all those cases where the fathers lived together in apartments because if they lived at home the welfare checks would stop. Sen Moynihan talked about the problems with this at the time but the Great Society people disregarded him. The fathers stayed close for a while but then lost interest and went elsewhere. The kids then lost any father figure they might have had and the mother was too busy trying to supply one from her vast group of acquaintances. The kids had more uncles than possible none of whom stuck around long enough to help.

The point Ann was making was that don't have the kid unless you are ready to take care of it, both father and mother. If you subtract the father and the mother has to support the family, then if she is poor, the kid gets lousy care and if she is rich, the kid gets hired help as the mother and mommy is a playmate for an hour or so a day.

What does the mixed race remark have to do with anything. This is a problem with all races. It just happens to be more of a problem with black families because black families have the highest incidences of unmarried mothers and single parent families and also the highest rate of criminality. Is it coincidence or causation. Open to question, maybe, the the coincidence leads to the likelihood of causation.
 

I am not a Coulter fan in the least. I think that she spends most of her time just be nasty and throwing out attacking language, but this time she actually has the numbers to back her stick up.

And that is the sad part. She isn't attacking unwed mothers or single parents, she is attacking liberal, social progressive policies of the last 40 years that have created a situation where illegitimate children have risen 300% and the crime and drug rates of people from single parent house holds represent 70% of the total.

But in classic liberal swing, that can't be right, because we have to protect the victim...which is proving her point. Completely proving it. The View just made her point for her. She throws out the numbers, she says that the liberal order of the last 40 years created this problem with their policies and immoral attacks on the family in their attempts to defend poor behavior...and they attack her for attacking the victims...who are not victims of anything but their choices.

Go Coulter.

cl
 

And so what are the right wing solutions to this problem:
Build jails
Abortion, that cant be it
Sex ed, that can't be it either.

Where are these solution? Just harping about imagined "liberal, social progressive policies of the last 40 years" isn't helping anyone.

I think I got it, we go back to 1950's "Leave it Beaver" illusion of society.? Or close all trailer parks?
 

madtom, it is not an illusion that more blacks used to grow up in intact families and therefore were less in danger of becoming part of a permanent underclass, even back in the 1950s. That is the result of empirical social research. Thomas Sowell has written about this frequently. Why don´t you want this to be true? What prejudice of yours does this undermine?
 

My only comment about blacks was sarcasm about Coulters comments in the video about Obama identifying with his father in his book, dreams of my father, and something Barry(sp) said at an award about her black parent. "went on and on". Me: how dare they!

If you want to draw lines, draw one from the prison population directly to Jim Crow,segregation, access to financing, zoning, and the disparity between rich and poor schools.
I don't see where you can really blame liberal policies. A better place to look would be tax policy, where poor area schools don't have the resources that schools in rich areas have. Then add it all up for two hundred years.
 

Then how do you explain the vast rise in the problems dating back to the Great Society days. Using your logic it should have been a constant problem all along and it wasn't.

There was a time when the families stayed together and worked to make it. Kids were expected to get as good an education as they could given the schools. They were also expected to behave. If they didn't they learned that they should have.

Fast forward to today. You have the parents afraid of the kids because of the liberal policy of suing the parent if he or she punishes the child. You have generations of kids who think that getting good grades is being a "whitey" and that is looked down on. You have generations of kids who think the right way of life is off the govt dole. You have generations of kids who think they don't have to give a damn about anyone else but themselves. Granted there was always some of this but it never had the govt protection that the Great Society gave it and that the "progressives" still do. The rest of us have to put up with it and try to live our lives regardless while the "progressives" pat themselves on the back for being so "progressive" and "compassionate" and so forth. Bah! Humbug!! They just refuse to take responsibility for their failed policies and the country has to try to make it anyway with the game set up against them.
 

I wonder which came first, the run down urban ghetto with 25% unemployment, or "You have generations of kids who think the right way of life is off the govt dole."

Just thinking out loud.

You could always blame the Interstate Highway system. Allowed wealthy white people to move tot eh suburbs and take their tax dollars with them. But I think that is just pissing in the wind, all that did was to expose what was really there all along under the surface. But you can explain you question with it.
 

But your Great Society, something Moynihan was complaining about while BJ was fomenting it, was supposed to clean all that stuff up. Everyone was to get the same education, kids were magically going to be raised by a combination of the govt and the involved parents. It was known back in the 1970's that this was not working at all, in fact was almost totally counterproductive. The kids were doing better before it all started and the families were staying together.

Then we get to the wonderful housing projects that came from this in ever increasing numbers. It was like Clockwork Orange in those projects. Within months the kids had demolished the mailboxes, the elevators were out of order more than in, the stairways had burned up mattresses, the residents were mugged in the hallways, the playground facilities were demolished or taken over by gangs and if someone complained the gangs were just misunderstood. Thank you, Great Society.
 

Yea well life's a bitch, you know if the problems were simple, so would the solutions. I'm not opposed to different ideas, I agreed and still do with the ownership society market solutions. but now they are blaming that for the meltdown. So where do we go from here. Harping about the failure of the past might make good got ya politics, but does noting for people on the ground...
 

We have a solution. We have always had a solution, but for the past 100 years our solution has been scoffed at. It has been denigrated and attacked.

The solution is simple. Take care of yourself and make good decisions and then be responsible for those decisions...good or bad.

Personal responsibility is the solution madtom. Always has been. And that is Coulter's point. That is all of libertarianism and some conservatism point. Take care of your self, good or bad.

But that doesn't work for socialist, communist, liberal progressives and the ilk. If people are responsible for themselves they don't need government but for defense of those liberties. There isn't much fun in that now is there.

Woopie's counter point to Coulter...? Do you have kids? So that's it, her solution of taking responsibility for your actions is that Coulter should have kids? So, having kids means now someone doesn't have to be responsible for their actions?

I think not. That is the solution madtom. And you know...it worked pretty good until about 100 years ago. Incidentally that is right about the time the "thinkers" of this world thought that Karl Marx was right. They have spent the last 100 years trying to implement his ideals and they are running out of victims and excuses for why it doesn't work.

And the reason is simple...the solution is simple...take responsibility for your life and your decisions. No one owes you anything. This government exist to defend your liberties from foreign and domestic attackers. You want to buy a home, save your money, make sure you pay your bills and get what you can afford.

No one has a right to home. No one has a right to medical attention. No one has a right to car, a flat screen TV, success, a place to live, or a telephone. We have a right to life, liberty, and the PURSUIT of happiness. Not happiness.

There is solution madtom. But you'll attack it cause you think we are responsible for each other. That I owe someone something. That a single mother, a young black man in the inner city, or some old person has a right to my money. To my aid. That they aren't responsible for themselves but I am.

I know the solution. And deep down I think you do to madtom. Coulter is right. It is time to stop defending the virtual "victims" for the mess they have made of their own lives. It is to hold them responsible and to at the very least let them get themselves out of their own problems.

cl
 

"No one has a right to home. No one has a right to medical attention. No one has a right to car, a flat screen TV, success, a place to live, or a telephone. We have a right to life, liberty, and the PURSUIT of happiness. Not happiness."

You forgot one, how about the right to equal opportunity?
Personal responsibility is a great concept, in theory. But how to apply it to a county with a history of racism and oppression like ours. You cant just ignore the past. This country has only been free for the last 40 years, it's still slanted against minorities, specially the justice system. The numbers quoted should sound the alarm, not the all clear.

"That I owe someone something."

A level playing field, we owe that to each other, doing otherwise will only ensure our demise. So in a way you would be investing in your own prosperity. By ignoring it you will participating in your own destruction.
 

Oh, Christ, Tom...

In case you haven't heard, this country you keep bitching about just elected a black man President.

Oh, by the way, the 14th amendment was ratified nearly a century and a half ago.

Do try to keep up.
 

Jason you live in Florida, you can not tell me you have not seen the racism?
And I am not bitching, I love this country, for all our faults we still blaze the trail. It's not that this place is bad, it's better than anywhere else, but that does not change the facts or the past. Racism exist, even if we have elected Obama, racism still exist, and more important for this discussion, it's legacy in the real world is still going strong. Mind you there are many success stories. I don't know if you have ever been down to Liberty city?

20 years ago, it was a war zone, today the change is so evident you can taste it. You see it everywhere, you can see it in the people, the homes the streets, the parks. But we have far to go. If we were charging a hill, I'd say were a third of the way up. No time to call off the charge now.
 

Madtom,

The problem is that the "progressives" are trying to legislate equal outcomes, not equal opportunity. That is the problem. If the outcomes are going to be equal, why put forth the effort. You will get the same outcome whether you do or you don't.

You have the opportunity now. You can make it or not. Your choice. The "progressives" then complain that the outcome does not match the proportion of the population for some "minorities." Could that be that the "minorities" are not putting forth the effort to make it? The "progressives" claim that is patently racism that is making the difference so we have to treat the "minorities" as if we know they cannot make it on their own so we will give it to them in any case.

Now tell this same person that he needs to learn something or he needs to work to obtain something and he will tell you he doesn't because Uncle Sugar told him he didn't. That you can trace right back to the "progressive" policies and the Great Society programs that have ruined the lives of so many.
 

Equal opportunity? How about better than equal opportunity? How much more do you need? I will try to say the following without sounding bitter about affirmative action: As a young white American I had scholarship opportunities...a young black man has the same opportunities and more that I don't have access too...simply because he is black.

You cry for equal opportunity, but you don't want it. You want to punish America for a practice that none of us conducted (we weren't even born). You want to blame everyone's problems on something that happened long before they were born and after all of the policies to fix it.

I for one will not feel guilty for a practice that until 1885 was pretty much standard WORLD WIDE. It is like a bad game of musical chairs...last man standing gets the bag. Genghis Khan traded slaves, the Romans traded slaves, all of Europe traded slaves. The Zulu traded slaves. Every tribe in Africa traded slaves. The US traded slaves. The south trades slaves and then the world runs out of chairs. Incidentally merchants from Maine and Massachusettes still traded slaves throughout the Civil War (you know the War to end slavery).

Yes madtom, racism does exist, and no, you will NEVER do anything about it. It is in man's nature to segregate himself. That is why very few white people live in South Central, CA and very few blacks live in Carlyss, LA. It is here to stay. Yes, you can argue that the nature of the War of Northern Aggression (read Civil War) and the way we dealt with slavery in this country throughout the reconstruction period may have magnified it, however you can not put the blame of black crime, black poverty, and black failures on the back of this country. Not when there is better than equal opportunity.

Don't give me the equal opportunity excuse. They have it. And for 40 years they have had better than equal opportunity. And yet the numbers still show an alarming rate of crime, illegitimacy, poverty, etc.

No sir, the problem is cultural. Not policy driven or the product of racism. Crime pays better and fast than an education. A low riding Impala is cooler than a computer. None of those things have anything to do with me. So I would rather not be held accountable for other people's decisions if you don't mind. I have enough to worry about with my own mistakes and my own responsibilities thank you very much.

Coulter's point is valid, stop victimizing people. Hold them responsible. Stop making them heroes for their bad decisions. Hold them accountable.

Madtom, you are doing the same thing as the rest of the progressives (and the ladies on the View)...you are looking for excuses and reasons to remove the responsibilities of American's lives from those very American's responsible and putting them on everyone else. Taking the responsibility of an inner city culture that glorifies crime, image, sexual irresponsibility, and failure and you are putting that on the backs of the other side of America that at the very least task responsibility for themselves...mistakes and all.

cl

P.S. Chris Rock once said that he had the same books at the inner city black school he attended and the up town white school he moved to...the difference...none of the kids at the black school opened up the books. Sounds like equal opportunity to me.
 

Better than equal, Punish, Guilt, Slaves, the war of northern aggression!

(scratching head thinks, minefield)

You have gone all out. How to answer all of that.

But yet I don't look back, I want to know what's back there because it impacts the present, but I am not interested in the past, I can't fix the past. My interest lie in the present. I look towards the future and that is where I want to expend my energy.

I know, I was not there either, I owned no slaves, I'm not guilty of hate or oppression, I don't what to keep anyone out of school. I wish there could be a seat for everyone that had the ambition to higher education, but like all things in life there are limits.

I don't accuse anyone, what I am trying to say to you is, it's in your best interest, my best interest to help raise those that were left behind. Not blame you for their situation. Or charge you for the actions of other for which you nor I had any control. What we need to do is look carefully at our best interest, today. Just think about your children, what world would you like to leave to them. What will their world look like, what opportunities will there be for them and their families. What kind or world will that be.

One in which huge tracks of the urban landscape resemble vast wastelands, riddled with crime, drugs violence, and broken families? I for one don't like that version of the future. I wonder, how will we pay for the jails when the population doubles, triples, quadruples, how will we pay for all the kids growing up without a role model, because they are either in jail, or dead. How will we rid the cities of gangs, when they become more powerful than the authorities.

How do we take back the streets, and build role models for the young men to look up to, Role models that offer an alternative lifestyles to the gang banger, drug dealers, and pimps. How do we bring back the very family values that we all aspire too. How do we compete with the low riders and bling, and grills, and bad boys that in so many ways wield real power on the street.

I'll tell you one thing, ignoring it and turning away, and just worrying about your own problems, and your own family, and looking inward, isn't enough. Look at Cuba, look at Venezuela. You know what people did there? The ignored the very same problems, and it came back to bite them in the ass.

This is why we need to work together to find the right solutions. It is our responsibility to make a better future, today. The only other option I can think of is building higher walls around our communities, putting more police, making checkpoint on every corner, walling ourselves off to the point where we live in a different world. But history has shown us that you cant build walls high enough, you cant put enough checkpoint on the street, secure gates on every driveway, you cant, you cant isolate yourself from the world around you, and still live in it.
How much is all this going to cost you?

I for one don't want to live that way. Anyway I don't believe we could do it for very long, much less afford it.
One day those walls will come crumbling down and there will be nothing between you and them. And they are going to be hungry, well armed, and angry as hell at you.