Thursday, October 20, 2005
Dumb as a sack of hammers...
That's my take on the latest Bush Administration push to evict all illegal immigrants, "without exception."
That's the same sort of "zero-tolerance" thinking that has made drooling morons out of school administrators across the country.
Not to say that immigration policy shouldn't have teeth, but justice should be tempered with mercy.
What happens, say, if someone came to the U.S. illegally 30 years ago, but who has built a business which now employs dozens of legal residents? Shall we throw those legal residents out on the economic ash-heap so we can deport the guy making it happen?
What about the single mother with three or four school-aged children who are themselves American citizens?
You have got to give someone, somewhere, some discretion to exercize common sense. Zero tolerance as a matter of policy is stupid, as is a "no exception" policy. The Administration should stop catering to the xenophobe wing of the Republican party.
Splash, out
Jason
That's the same sort of "zero-tolerance" thinking that has made drooling morons out of school administrators across the country.
Not to say that immigration policy shouldn't have teeth, but justice should be tempered with mercy.
What happens, say, if someone came to the U.S. illegally 30 years ago, but who has built a business which now employs dozens of legal residents? Shall we throw those legal residents out on the economic ash-heap so we can deport the guy making it happen?
What about the single mother with three or four school-aged children who are themselves American citizens?
You have got to give someone, somewhere, some discretion to exercize common sense. Zero tolerance as a matter of policy is stupid, as is a "no exception" policy. The Administration should stop catering to the xenophobe wing of the Republican party.
Splash, out
Jason
Comments:
Hey Jason, These are illegal aliens. What part of illegal don't you understand? They are criminals and should be deported - every one of them.
Now, I don't have a problem with immigrants. My grandparents came here from Germany, but they did it legally. We have a sovereign right to secure borders and to expel anyone who violates those borders. It is that simple.
Also, I am for passing a law that denies citizship to the children of illegal aliens who are born here (the children). If that's harsh, too bad!
I enjoy your site very much Jason, but I obviously disagree with you on this point. Sorry for the anonymous post, but I am not a blogger and do not have a website.
paul
Now, I don't have a problem with immigrants. My grandparents came here from Germany, but they did it legally. We have a sovereign right to secure borders and to expel anyone who violates those borders. It is that simple.
Also, I am for passing a law that denies citizship to the children of illegal aliens who are born here (the children). If that's harsh, too bad!
I enjoy your site very much Jason, but I obviously disagree with you on this point. Sorry for the anonymous post, but I am not a blogger and do not have a website.
paul
# posted by 
: 1:51 PM
: 1:51 PM
I have a hard time understanding the position of much of the right on illegal immigrants. It seems quite paranoid and xenophobic to me. We have one or two large-scale terrorist attacks on our soil (and IIRC, the 9/11 attack was committed by people who were here LEGALLY), and all of a sudden the entire conservative movement is out to get illegal immigrants.
All I can say is that those crying to oust illegals from our soil either must not live in an agricultural state, or just have no idea the importance of illegal immigrant labor to the agricultural industry, particularly in the harvest of fruits and vegetables. They enjoy low prices on produce from California and Florida, while simultaneously urging legislation which would massively increase the prices of such produce. In California, the majority of the illegal immigrant population does work few (if any) citizens or legal immigrants are interested in, for wages we wouldn't accept.
The Wall Street Journal recently printed an article in which it described that the spending power of the average American family is now the greatest it has EVER been, so apparently the illegals aren't creating the kind of massive drag on our economy that some people like to think they are.
That leaves only one logical conclusion; that it really IS about paranoia and xenophobia. And that's sad, since most of our ancestors were probably illegal immigrants at one point in time or another (or would be by today's laws). We built this country on that foundation, and now wish to expel those.
We should remember the enscription on a certain statue in one of our nation's oldest and greatest cities:
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
It says nothing like "Give me only those of you who have filled out the appropriate forms in triplicate".
All I can say is that those crying to oust illegals from our soil either must not live in an agricultural state, or just have no idea the importance of illegal immigrant labor to the agricultural industry, particularly in the harvest of fruits and vegetables. They enjoy low prices on produce from California and Florida, while simultaneously urging legislation which would massively increase the prices of such produce. In California, the majority of the illegal immigrant population does work few (if any) citizens or legal immigrants are interested in, for wages we wouldn't accept.
The Wall Street Journal recently printed an article in which it described that the spending power of the average American family is now the greatest it has EVER been, so apparently the illegals aren't creating the kind of massive drag on our economy that some people like to think they are.
That leaves only one logical conclusion; that it really IS about paranoia and xenophobia. And that's sad, since most of our ancestors were probably illegal immigrants at one point in time or another (or would be by today's laws). We built this country on that foundation, and now wish to expel those.
We should remember the enscription on a certain statue in one of our nation's oldest and greatest cities:
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
It says nothing like "Give me only those of you who have filled out the appropriate forms in triplicate".
If somone has been here for 30 years and hasn't become a citizen we should give them a break? It's okay with you that they didn't apply for citzenship during that period or amnesty during the Reagan administration? Geez! And you want to encourage them to have children here to get a pass on exportation? That's pathetic logic.
Illegal immigration was an issue before 9/11. We are supposed to be a nation of laws. The first thing these folks did when they came into our country was show contempt for our laws. Somehow, that's not okay with me. Period. And it certainly sends the wrong message to all the immigrants that follow our laws and procedures for legal immigration.
Craig
Illegal immigration was an issue before 9/11. We are supposed to be a nation of laws. The first thing these folks did when they came into our country was show contempt for our laws. Somehow, that's not okay with me. Period. And it certainly sends the wrong message to all the immigrants that follow our laws and procedures for legal immigration.
Craig
# posted by : 11:10 PM
: 11:10 PM
Well, no one has responded to the specific Socratic reasoning:
Does it make sense to deport one man when doing so puts dozens of American citizens in the unemployment line?
This is "justice?" To whom? Certainly not to the Americans who have been working there.
As for denying citizenship to children of illegal immigrants, well, remember that every child, in theory, has two parents. One may or may not be an American citizen. The immigrant may be the breadwinner for the family. The American may or may not be in a position to support the children.
So you would deny American citizenship and deport children who have one citizen parent?
I think not.
So deporting the breadwinner makes sense in what system of "justice?"
The more I think about "no exceptions" policies in general, the faster they fall apart. Either they will lead to great injustices to individual Americans (the law of unintended consequences), or they will go unenforced by bureaucrats with some modicum of common sense.
Jason
Does it make sense to deport one man when doing so puts dozens of American citizens in the unemployment line?
This is "justice?" To whom? Certainly not to the Americans who have been working there.
As for denying citizenship to children of illegal immigrants, well, remember that every child, in theory, has two parents. One may or may not be an American citizen. The immigrant may be the breadwinner for the family. The American may or may not be in a position to support the children.
So you would deny American citizenship and deport children who have one citizen parent?
I think not.
So deporting the breadwinner makes sense in what system of "justice?"
The more I think about "no exceptions" policies in general, the faster they fall apart. Either they will lead to great injustices to individual Americans (the law of unintended consequences), or they will go unenforced by bureaucrats with some modicum of common sense.
Jason
In response to Craig's comment,
certainly there must be limits to our tolerance. Your example of a 30 year illegal resident might be one. My comments were on the ridiculous, fiscally irresponsible, and unjust nature of a comprehensive deportation of ALL illegals.
certainly there must be limits to our tolerance. Your example of a 30 year illegal resident might be one. My comments were on the ridiculous, fiscally irresponsible, and unjust nature of a comprehensive deportation of ALL illegals.
Jason said: "Well, no one has responded to the specific Socratic reasoning:
Does it make sense to deport one man when doing so puts dozens of American citizens in the unemployment line?"
That isn't Socratic reasoning, it is just blowing smoke by playing "if" games. It is the same nonsense the Stalinists (Left, Liberals, moonbats - whatever), use to try and take our guns away: "What if the baby finds the gun and shoots himself?"
My position on illegal immigration has not changed for 20 years; long before 9/11. Stop believing everything you read and hear in the MSM and start thinking for yourselves. Illegal immigration is illegal.
You have simply chosen to ignore the problem.
paul
Does it make sense to deport one man when doing so puts dozens of American citizens in the unemployment line?"
That isn't Socratic reasoning, it is just blowing smoke by playing "if" games. It is the same nonsense the Stalinists (Left, Liberals, moonbats - whatever), use to try and take our guns away: "What if the baby finds the gun and shoots himself?"
My position on illegal immigration has not changed for 20 years; long before 9/11. Stop believing everything you read and hear in the MSM and start thinking for yourselves. Illegal immigration is illegal.
You have simply chosen to ignore the problem.
paul
# posted by : 2:01 PM
: 2:01 PM
Oh, I haven't chosen to ignore anything. But the question still stands, unanswered: If deporting someone who runs a successful business and employs dozens of legal residents, does it make sense to deport him?
I think the "no-exceptions" thinking is simply deranged.
I think the "no-exceptions" thinking is simply deranged.
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