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Saturday, September 10, 2005

An Air Force Loggie weighs in 
Some good points from one of our brothers in blue:

1. Things can get destroyed far more swiftly than they can get fixed.

2. The United States military can wipe out the Taliban and the Iraqi Republican Guard far more swiftly than they can bring 3 million Swanson dinners to an underwater city through an area the size of Great Britain which has no power, no working ports or airports, and a devastated and impassable road network.

3. You cannot speed recovery and relief efforts up by prepositioning assets since the assets are endangered by the very storm which destroyed the region.

4. We do not yet have teleporter nor replicator technology like you saw on "Star Trek" in college between hookah hits and waiting to pick up your worthless communications degree while the grownups actually engaged in the recovery effort today were studying engineering.

5. Getting people out of the stricken areas is the most pressing concern, since we cannot get enough supplies into it to safely sustain them.

6. Getting the airport, bridges, and roads repaired is the next priority, since the supplies and people needed to fix levees, drain the city, and repair the infrastructure cannot be transported via aircraft. You need to truck them in.

7. Once the infrastructure is repaired, it is vital to get the ports in working order. Equipment and supplies can only be moved into the area in large quantities by sea.

8. Only then can recovery efforts begin in earnest.

9. The above will take weeks and months, not days or hours.

10. No amount of yelling, crying, and mustering of moral indignation will change any of the facts above. Facts are facts. Opinion is cheap.


What he said.

Jason

Comments:
One thing I have been wondering. As we try to find out what was not done right;
If the powers that be knew everything we know now, at the time the water poured in, what would they haved done different. What would the logistics have allowed them to do different. Anything? Or would only a diffent set of people die.
 
So how come WalMart was able to get convoys in? How come the Red Cross and other private aid agencies were prevented from entering NO? And how come 3 undergrads from Duke were able to just get in their car and get in and out of NO multiple times, ferrying a few people at a time, and getting gas whenever they needed it?

Face it, the folks that should have been providing aid to the evacuation centers were paralyzed with hyped up fear of lawlessness. Anyone with guts just got their ass down their and pitched in.

You know the expression, excuses are like assholes. Everyone's got one.
 
Where did these luminaries come in from? How many trucks? What route did they take? If they found a passable route, did they pass on the information to someone in the hopes that others would use it, or assume it was already known? Were they trying to bring supplies to one location, or several dozen at once?

But no, you really don't want answers to your questions, do you? You just want people to assume the answer is "it's all the government's fault" since it's such a nice and easy opinion to come up with.

BTW, the expression is that opinions are like assholes. Interesting.
 
By "they" I'm assuming you mean the kids from Duke. They came in the same route everyone came in on, the press, WalMart, anyone and everyone -- the only road into NO. NO was never physically isolated. There was always at least one road passable.

You can read about them at
these links. They were also interviewed on CNN, but I dont find a link their site.

And yes, I really do want answers. Unlike the finger pointing wimps like DeLay and Rove. Why aren't these ass-covering f---ups willing to allow an indepenent investigation? I'd like to see them go on Joe Scarborough's show and try and explain why they fear an independent panel.
 
Um, the Red Cross and the other "private agencies" actually work with and are coordinated by you guessed it, FEMA.

And it was the State of LA that kept the RC and another of FEMA's main groups, the Sully Army, out of NO
 
Any your point is?

Look, I don't have the answers. My mind is not closed, nor blinded by some sort of craven partisanship.

But I find it gaulling that Jason is reduced to posting lame ass-covering and excuse making. And I'm really appauled that Bush and DeLay won't commission a real, independent investigation.

This is important. There is no excuse for not doing this right. Let the chips fall where they may. We have to learn from this failure.

Real Americans, real patriots, would not have it any other way. Too bad there are none of them at the helm in DC.
 
KC,

Did you read #5?

5. Getting people out of the stricken areas is the most pressing concern, since we cannot get enough supplies into it to safely sustain them.

That's fantastic that WalMart was able to get a few trucks in. Were they able to get a major bus convoy in to transport people out en masse?

That's great that Duke kids could get out a few people at a time. Is that really what you wanted FEMA to arrange? Evacuation 2-3 people at a time?

Read some of Jason's earlier posts on the logistics of putting together large groups of heavy vehicles and you'll have a better idea of what it takes to get out 10,000 people and why it takes longer than a split-second.
 
Yeah, but jarheaddad, are you a "real patriot" like KC and the kids from Doooook?
 
BTW: Jack Kelly's column today cites you Jason.
 
Curiously, no one here is defending the political calculations of the R's who are actively preventing a credible investigation -- exactly like they did after 9/11. No, instead you're putting words in my mouth. Or blenderizing them to willfully misconstrue what I'm saying. Did I say it was all the fault of the feds? Did I say it was all because of race? Did I say that I have the answers? No, no, and no.

The kids from Duke, as well as Wal-mart, as well as the RCMP (who were going door to door in the NO flood zone long before anyone else) raise serious questions about the relief response. They did spend a few days in Baton Rouge before faking their way into NO. But by the time they did it, according to them, it was a 15 minute, unobstructed drive from the military checkpoint to the dome. According to them, there were fleets of busses heading out of NO empty.

I have no doubt that folks like jarheaddad were working their butts off clearing the way. My hats off to anyone on the ground getting the job done. But when I hear that leaders in DC were paralyzed by lawyerly nitpicking, wringing their hands about "insurrection", that the feds were busy serving up ultimatums to Blanco rather than working as a team, that Bush and his cabinet were absent when they should have been leading, I get angry and want to see some accountability.

And, BTW, Wal-Mart did a lot more than send 3 trucks. They kicked FEMA butt all up and down the gulf coast. They aren't sitting around now trying to cover their asses. They weren't waiting for ever duck to be lined up. They didn't cower, waiting for armed escort. They took advantage of their operational capacity and got the damned job done.

I really expected better from this blog. I have read Jason's posts -- even though we are politics are night and day different -- because he has been tough minded and independent. The very opposite of what I'm reading here now.

Doesn't it concern you when a guy like Joe Scarborough, has this to say:

"SCARBOROUGH: Well, Colonel, that is surprising to a lot of people, hearing you say it, because you have been—like me, you have been a big supporter of George Bush.

"But I have been on the ground down here, and I can't cut it any other way. He has failed. FEMA has failed. The government of Mississippi has failed. The governor of Louisiana has failed. The governor—or the mayor of New Orleans has failed."

He's not the only supposedly "right wing" commentator to question the leadership and execution of the relief effort. Like I say, true patriots would be satifisfied with nothing less than a thorough, independent, de-politicized investigation. Let experts like Jason make their points dispassionately to a gold-ribbon panel of independent experts. Let the chips fall where they may.
 
Soory dude, but when you say that kids from Duke got in, and then ask why the Feds didn't, if that's not blaming them, then I don't know what is.

BTW: What does Scarborough know about disaster relief? What does he know that Jason and jarhead dad don't. Was he on the ground?

Sorry, I know lots of "real patriots" on the Right think the response sucked, but aside from the red tape bullshit that Jason has already called attention to, I've seen nothing to lead me to believe that the federal govt did anything less than a damn good job considering the logistical hurdles and the problems in the local response.

And I've heard precious little substantial, factual criticism of the effort from blowhards like Lott and Scarborough.

And color me skeptical of any blue ribbon investigative panel. Given recent revelations regarding the 9/11 commish and what they left out of the report, it looks now like a steaming pile of manure, and frankly I doubt that another commish will be anything different. Another chance for a lot of jerks to bloviate and then put out some half-assed report.

But then again, I'm not a "real patriot" (TM)
 
Doesn't it concern you when a guy like Joe Scarborough, has this to say:...

No. That would be because he's an airhead jackass without a clue about logistics.
 
Thanks JarheadDad for keeping it real and keeping it civil. Like I said above, my hat's off to all of you on the ground getting the job done. Really.

I could get all defensive and point out, again, that I'm not blaming everything on the feds, or playing the race card. Not me. Plenty of folks are. But not me. What I want is accountability and a proper investigation. I don't see why that is so hard to swallow.

Enough already. Let's end this little discussion with a little harmony, OK?

"Remove the politics of this whole scenario and what have you got? Amazing to think about isn't it?"

Amen to that.
 
KC:
Whre we disagree involves the politics of it.

You believe an investigation will be a panacea, will get rid of the political bs involved in all of this.

I maintain just the opposite. That an investigation will mean even more political grandstanding, and will teach us little we don't find out without an official investigation.

The lessons of Katrina are all to clear to those paying attention.

(1) Be prepared to be on your own for 72 to 96 hours. Water, food, batteries, fuel, probably a gun
(2) Elect local govt and state leaders who are competent and responsible

As for the various out-of-state responders, no doubt they'll be examining what they could do different. No doubt they'll be even better when the next disaster strikes. Seems to me that there has been a learning curve since Andrew in 92, and that responses keep getting better at the federal level, and in states like Fla that learned lessons of earlier hurricanes. Long may it continue.
 
I agree with most items, but have a question on item #3.

3. You cannot speed recovery and relief efforts up by prepositioning assets since the assets are endangered by the very storm which destroyed the region.

Isn't this a commmand level judgment call? The Corps of Engineers had their contractors pre-position equipment in NO because of post-storm accessibility concerns. Mississippi pre-positioned some units on the coast for more rapid response. Do some commanders accept more risk than others?
 
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